E028 Leadership and Work - Life Balance with Michael Wood FIH (Pt 1)

In the 24/7 world of hospitality, achieving work-life balance might seem impossible, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Safe to say if the elusive work-life balance can be achieved in the industry, it is achievable in any industry. 

In this episode of the Life and Leadership podcast, we delve into this crucial topic with Michael Wood FIH, General Manager of Hempstead House Hotel in Kent, United Kingdom. Michael not only shares his personal strategies for achieving work-life balance but also explains how he tries to ensure the same for his team. 

He also emphasizes the power of effective leadership, recounting how one influential general manager early in his career has made a lasting impact on his leadership style today. 

Michael’s insights offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to balance life and leadership in a demanding industry. 

Tune in for a compelling discussion filled with practical strategies and inspiration!

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Michael Wood FIH is General Manager and Director of Hempstead House Hotel and spa based in Kent, in the United Kingdom. With 20 years of independent hotel experience and 9 years of senior management, Michael has a passion to create a team of people to learn from each other and lead when required and to make collaborative decisions for business and individual growth and success.  

Also joint vice chair of the Southeast Institute of Hospitality, Michael is very passionate about his career in hospitality and has a wonderful wife and two children who support this lifestyle along with their new addition of Bonnie the cockapoo. 

Michael loves to make a good cappuccino when he gets to work and to escape to the golf course whenever possible.

Follow Michael Wood https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-wood-mih-05b72b71/

Transcript

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There's no point in trying to run a business and be the only leader. You need more people to lead  the business for you so we've got to grow them up and balance everybody can take that pressure  Maybe it's their day today they're in charge a bit more pressure today but the next two days  they're off but and it's somebody else's pressure to do but if more people can do that it spreads to  everybody's they can all go okay they're they're confident today my section my Department's okay  I'm not going to come back into into a problem so empowering them to be able to give back  to the other senior leaders I think I think it's a huge development You've got to that leadership  position because you've already or you should have already earned that trust and respect and Authority  that you can now disseminate that to the rest of the team and they feel oh he leading me now  so actually getting those supervisors and aspiring leaders to learn to be confident to get someone  else to do that job for them shows that they're leading shows they're in control they're not  just doing all themselves from serving the table taking the order taking the wine list suggesting  the wines asking about desserts doing the chitchat. Get somebody else to do that spread that through  them. So it's trying to get them to be confident and to feel that's okay to ask other people  to do their duties for them. You're listening to the life and Leadership podcast where leaders  from across the globe share openly about the trials triumphs and Lessons Learned along the  leadership Journey whether you're a seasoned new or aspiring leader get ready to receive powerful  insights and practical takeaways to help you grow in your leadership and now here is your  host Mary Eniolu [Music] welcome to the life and Leadership podcast my guest today is Mike Wood  general manager and director of Hemstead House Hotel and Spa with 20 years of independent Hotel  experience and 9 years of senior management experience he's also the joint Vice chair of  the South East Institute of hospitality. Mike has a passion to create a team of people that learn from  each other and work collaboratively for business and individual growth and success He's blessed to  have a wonderful wife and two children who support his lifestyle, loves to make a good cappuccino  when he gets to work and will escape to the golf course whenever possible. Mike thank you so much  for coming on the life and Leadership podcast it's really great to have you here today. You're  very welcome it's lovely to be in discussion with you. Yeah I've been looking forward to it.  I'm just going to ask you to kick us off and tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey and  how you got to where you are today. Goodness me, when did I when did I start? it was  September 1999 when I first came into the industry nearly yeah 24 years blind me I'm in my mid 40s now so uh it's I've seen and seen and heard and been around the game uh if you  like because it is a game and a lifestyle which we're going to be talking about and um yeah I grew up in in a pub with my parents from the age of 5 to 16 so left at the age of 16 when it was  all a bit exciting I suppose um but through those years I just saw the activity of hospitality um  and thought God this is this this looks great this is fun it's busy it's vibrant something different  every day always something to look forward to or work out and solutions and I watched my parents  sort of Thrive through the industry of of long serving publicans and hospitality and dining and  Outlets um and that sort of yeah grew me into thinking maybe it's my lucky stars or unlucky  Stars this is where I am now um so yeah it's it's been a long journey from inheritance of Lifestyle  from being a junior to the industry starting off at the age of age of 20 I'm still here now that's  quite interesting to be honest I've interviewed a number of general managers on this podcast  and they tend to all have the similar stories of just kind of falling into the industry and  realizing how much they love it you know it's amazing when things happen and in retrospect  you look back and you see how experiences you had as a child growing up Etc how it actually shapes  your future it's really really interesting totally yeah so now you're the GM of the Hempstead House   in Sittingbourne, tell us a little bit about that. Yes I am so I've been here now for 11 years um came over  here from uh a lucky situation from a local hotel the owners here looking to develop and and make  it into a bit of a destination and it was always on a competitor set and I'd heard about it and  thought God you know I've done I've done seven or eight years at this this place already here where  I was uh previously and this opportunity sort of fell into into to the the right right direction so  yeah came over here to sort of help the owners and proprietor um and GM at the time look at remapping  the business and how Leisure Market transition to corporate Market wedding Market um private dining  and how the whole business needed a bit of a bit of a help and I could see it quite disjointed  and and got really involved operationally at the time so operations manager and Leisure was where  it all sort of started um and then for the last six six years of taken the GM ship to here in the  business um and and Along Came that role in Duty and responsibility so yeah it's a beautiful little  Country House Hotel down here in the garden of England in Kent um we're quite close to the city  so we get a bit of bit of travel from the city um a lot of local business here we try to try  to find that niche in our competitor set if you like to be healthily competitive but equally stand  alone in what we are and who we are um and it's a beautiful independent Boutique privately owned  Hotel no consortiums big brothers or sisters to to support it financially or or on the supply chain  route or the procurement and HR route so it's all us independently here to to work it out um  and and that's that's the great challenge I think yeah I can imagine and don't want to mention the  dreaded 'C'' word that threw us all a curve ball that none of us were expecting but I think more so for  the hospitality industry obviously it hit hard um can you just tell us a little bit about how  you cut in that season of covid and how you you've and perhaps the lessons you've learned and changes  you've made as a result of oh gosh yeah wasn't it wasn't it just Yeah March 2020 and and all  the things we had planning and and how good things were and how bubbling things were economically for  everybody it was a real real perfect storm for everything and that was it was catastrophic and  I really have a handheld you know condolence to a lot of people that professionally in their in  their jobs didn't didn't survive um and closed down or had real remapping problems and what to  do in that situation um we had that little dabble of Interest where we thought things were going to  reopen again and and and by then nobody really knew what to do they kept their same business  plans they just came back to life and carried on um we we had the same discussions the room  I'm sitting in now we were due to in a December to have a a festive Santa experience here in the  hotel and it was a great busy December and it all got all got pulled away from us on the 19th  of December that that day remember it so well and so many flat staff here thought i' got to go home  again it's all I'm going to lose my job again and we thought as a business owners you this is  it now this is the second time we can't see this again uh the Kent variant came apparent down here  that it was the new strain across the world that was known what have we done down here in Kent how  have we caused this God we're now we're going to be hated by everybody um so yeah such a regrowth  and what a platform and for us like many we had to borrow some money from from Banks and look at what  we were going to do um and the whole process just made us stand up and say we have to we have to  push forwards with this and and not just give into it don't try and look to streamline the business  don't close areas down don't just open up with five or six rooms again don't just bring one or  two staff back we have to reinvest and use this opportunity where in Hospitality you'd never get  the chance to close down and re and reformat your business or redecorate or reimagine your business  so that's what we did we really went for it we really took it on um and it was the best thing  we could have ever done it motivated the staff it motivated us as owners proprietor uh to think  that's what we're going to do that it looks so positive we just had to remain positive um to  try and drive it forward and finally it worked it worked out in the end we had a huge upturn  huge Resurgence of business it kind of helped us realize how many people did know about us here  and wanted to come back to this industry to work and to for leisure um so it was really powerful  but but in in in so many ways and I at that time didn't have like any other GMS might have done 30  40 50 years nobody had an answer nobody knew what to do we're all all became all became level MH  and the whole reach out process to to communicate and connect with people was was huge so it brought  so many competitive sets and suppliers together I think um that made it really really successful for  for majority of the industry um to see where we're at now yeah no that's amazing I mean yes I I think  Co really did become or create a Level Playing Field to a huge respect for most Industries it  really did because it was like reset everybody start again and we all had to learn through and  go through find a way through but I love what you said because that it takes a certain mindset to  actually come up with that way to respond to what was going on at the time what would have been the  normal maybe uh way of thinking would be like you said downsize reduce you know try and manage Etc  but you went the complete total opposite direction to say this is actually the time to invest and get  ready for when we relaunch and come back so I think courageous leadership is so um important  it takes courage to be able to lead especially in times of uncertainty and crisis like this courage  is one thing yeah definitely because I thought that we I've got to help support the decision  I can't have the proprietor the owner going one way and me thinking no operationally this won't  work we had we had to collaborate and make that decision to move that forward and take it that way  and it was it was all or nothing maybe because we didn't have investors we didn't have family  we didn't have schemes that we couldn't let other people down our our our staff were our were our  core heartbeat and if it was that guilt to feel that if we did get this wrong that could be the  problem what would we do with those Lifestyles everybody that was employed by us How would  how would we deal with that emotionally and and collaboratively to to sort that out for everybody  so it was a huge decision that felt was the best way to do it we couldn't have people coming back  wanting to spend money and earn money in in in in a standard in a standard business that  hadn't hadn't improved um so it was it was a big decision to make um and and quite heavy Financial  one but we knew it couldn't it would never it had to recover something had to recover from  the whole industry uh and that we just couldn't couldn't let it go so it was a a big step and and  I'm really proud one that we took that decision wonderful and I'm pleased to hear it paid out it  paid out so so I mean the hospitality industry is a funny I don't want to say funny one it's Unique  um and I love it in the sense of how it oper it's so so close to all of our hearts it's so  intertwined with our daily lives you know whether it's the pop down the road or the restaurant  or it's a hotel or it's a spa it's just there it's part of our our daily lives and sometimes  we the users don't think about uh perhaps how it impacts on those who work in the industry because  it's almost like a 247 Service as it were so I would like us to talk a little bit um about work  life balance in the hospitality industry is that something that is achievable is it something that  is possible at all yeah I I thought about this a lot because it's you hear it to everybody you talk  about socially in your peer groups and friendship groups oh I work all the time I work you can see  work life balances is a big thing but for me I kind of identify kind of what it means because  I think at if I take myself back to 20 years old I didn't have a family and I didn't had a partner  but didn't have I had you know um responsibilities of paying mortgages or anything so my work life  balance was just want to work I I want to work all the time this is this is great yeah I keep  working I'm available yeah I'm available yeah no problem weekends it's great yeah I'd rather that  rather not this but I wanted to work um and as you progress personally through your lifestyle  responsibilities start to start to occur families occur Partners occur marriages occur pets arrive  children arri all sorts of things that you think okay I can't be like that as driven as motivated  as I can be I' got to work this out and you you takes that time to realize it's happening before  you now need to think put it in place it's the skill is trying to work out to get that balance  first before it overlaps and then causes the resentment of something and something has to  give or break and to find that so that's why I think some people need work as their lifestyle  and other and it's hard to understand that because I think people people need that Community people  need that togetherness they need that integration to be coming to work but equally you can't  you can't expect that of people and if you you find the right characters at sometimes you meet  at the industry that just generally want to work more they they have a home life that don't have  a partner they don't have anything to be going on they want to be out they want their mental health  they want to be engaged and busy and productive um and and so that's that's really tricky so it  can be achieved by yourself as an individual in your workplace proposing it with your your with  your your employer but equally us recognizing it as employers need to prevent it before it  becomes a problem to make sure that you're not exposing that to become a negative lifestyle to  people so it's definitely achievable and it's and it's I think where the freedom of hospitality in  my industry or our industry helps is that people can can be flexible with that shift pattern it's  

open 24/7 so you're not fixed into having to work at 9: 13:46

00 and having to work at till 600 or 5 every  

day right there's opportunities to in the summer months come to work at 6: 13:51

00 700 in the morning  on a rotor and finish at 2 or 3 in the afternoon you've done a day's work 8 hours you got 3 till  

10: 14:00

00 at night off at home so it feels like you got a day off and you work the same day so that  beauty of the industry where shift pattern can work is amazing and the the occasional time to  to find fit different things in if you want to go shopping you want to go away you're not you  can have two days off in the middle of the week to go to the theme par with your kids okay it's half  terms it's a bit busier but if they're underage or under five or something or or a certain ages  you can achieve loads in when when other people are at work so you're not committed to be going  out a weekend all the time with hundreds of people busy shopping centres where everybody's going so  if if if you've kind the right sector through the industry I think it's definitely achievable to to  find that work life balance as a as an employee but us recognizing as Employer to make sure we're  giving it is is very key yeah no I love I love that basically what you I hear you say is work  life balance is very uh subjective basically I think totally we we worry too much by making sure  it is a work life balance but other people don't want it they they their balance is actually being  here working that they want to work their 35 to 40 hours it depends on where you are at that point  in your life you know and I always say we can't ever achieve work life balance anyway you never  get that balance do you what we want to achieve is some sort of Harmony around everything we're  doing like you said we don't want anything to suffer or to break but it's never 50/50 you  never say oh i' I've done 50 for work it has to be 50 for it's just having that Harmony in your  lives where nothing is suffering absolutely and how many how many times you you you meet someone  in a conversation you say you end a call by saying look look after yourself don't work too hard and I  go okay I won't work too hard but in my duty in my professional career I have to I have to work  hard I have a I have like a 10-e gap now or or or I have have to work hard because if you don't  work hard you don't get the privilege of having that balance of Life Style to perhaps go on a  weekend well go or look to go and buy something with the kids and go shopping for a day out so  it's it's a tricky what that means it so it's yeah you have to you have to get that get that  figured out if you're enjoying this conversation don't forget to hit the Subscribe button that will  help us bring more inspiring conversations to you and reach more people and if you know of a leader  that should be featured on the life and Leadership podcast please reach out to us with their details  we would love to hear from you so let's talk specifically with respect to leadership so um  as a leader in the hospitality industry how do you achieve that work life balance for yourself what  are some of the things you've put in place that enables you to let me rephrase what are some of  the things you've put in place to achieve that work life Harmony for yourself yeah I think I  think it's a bit of a a bit of a structure I have I have a a situation so as I say our industry and  business is open seven days a week so where do where do I need to be where do I want to be as in  the days visible to the staff and days visible to the customers so I've got to find that severity of  not doing it all Friday Saturday Sunday every day of the week and not then being there on a Monday  Tuesday Wednesday or out of those three days because that's when we're building everything  that's when the decisions are made that's when I feel I'm in my key element to be here midweek  middays but equally I can't just be okay thanks team well done see you on see you next Monday  then not be in on a Friday Saturday Sunday all the time so I've got to look at the business and  structure myself quite organized through a month to then think that's how what's what's coming up  couple of key events couple of special VIP visits we've got a special you got some staff shortages  so where do I place myself and be organized week by week by week not just stick to my set days and  think that's it whatever goes on around me so that actually helps me although it may look unbalanced  because I may not know what I'm doing week to to tell my family or tell myself it actually gives  me a comfort to know that I'm at the right places when I need to be not just stay with my fixed days  off and and let it happen around me um cuz and and that's that's I think the way I build into how to  I'm visibly leading the business visibly leading it for the team visibly leading it for the guests  if they're here and they want to to make sure it's all it's all happening correctly and be the face  of the business sometime just a handshake and a welcome if you know a couple of guest names that  are coming back that's really really special to me just to sort of go and identify that  and work those guests out so placing myself at the right place at the right time is Key um the  modern digital world on a mobile phone it will be yours will be pinging now there'll be emails  coming in now there'll be text messages something there'll be a group chat so actually for me and  the senior team I kind of try and harmonize if that's acceptable or not for them to have that  to help them be ahead of the be ahead of the game that there's an issue or something can  be prevented before they come back to work later that day or the next day rather than please don't  look at your phones please don't if you're off you're off totally a lot of the staff I found  want to be connected and they want to know what's happening today if they're off to know that when  

they come in tomorrow they're aware of it not turn up at 3: 18:55

00 in afternoon and that's the  first they find out that an event's changed an event's cancelled Uh something's happened  at the hotel they they want to be connected to know and that helps them build their lifestyle  balance to know that they're not feeling anxious or nervous about what's they're disconnected from  the business so it's a very tricky one trying and keep balancing what the guests sorry what  do the staff want to know out of their work time no but I I totally um I I hear what you're saying  I mean even as as a self-employed business owner you know uh there are certain times I don't work  you know I'm I say I'm not going to work on on the weekends I'm not going to work on but but  sometimes like you say I do check my emails I'm not rigid about it I do check my emails because  at the end of the day I am going to come in on Monday and I'm going to need to deal with those  things and so me being aware and being prepared helps me it's actually not detrimental to me to  have that information beforehand on the weekend even sometimes when I have to work in the evenings  it's not for me it's not taken out of my work life balance because um some Mondays for instance  during the day I might not be working I might decide I want to go do something else so that  flexibility I think is important but there was something you mentioned about the planning and  the and being intentional so planning your day in or your weeks I suppose in advance and being  intentional about how you position yourself in the business is something that you have found  helps you so rather than being rigid about your days planning ahead and intentionally positioning  yourself in a certain way in the business actually helps you achieve that work life  Harmony and communication is something else you mentioned the the power of communication  I I did hugely and it's not to be self-centric about thinking me as a leader and how how I my  plan may not work for somebody else but yes in a in a senior position leader I've equally got  leaders in the hotel in every capacity the events office are individual leaders themselves managing  their own time and they're leading the business so it's leadership in different ways you've got  supervisors that have got a lot less pressure if you like but it's relevant pressure to the role  they're in a supervisor they're still they're still leading they might be 22 years old but  they're still leading they have to be a leader to two or three other staff on that shift as well as  the admin team and reception team so their their responsibility is still a leadership CR criteria  and they may not get the chance to schedule their rotor they may not get the chance to choose when  they're going to work or where to positions but if they can take tools out of organizing  that in their shift well where should I place myself today should I be the restaurant floor  and running the restaurant as supervisor probably yes but if they can collaborate that with somebody  else that's a bit Junior but show them how they would do it that helps them understand it as well  where to place themselves during their shift and they're organized with it I then elevate it to  PR prioritize where I place myself on week on day through the week so that's that's how I'd want to  to how I sort of look to explain it to the rest of the team here rather than just follow your follow  your rot to yes but don't just come in and do the do the same do the same thing so if you were  to give advice to your leaders um and say well I think if you do this that and the other you will  be able to achieve this work life Harmony that everybody seems to be chasing what would those  three things be for you do you think advice that you would give them yeah yeah it definitely would  be I mean don't look looking back at yourself as a as as I used to be because I think we've all got  caught up in that when you get into a leadership role you try and be you be put your shield on and  Captain I can do all this for everybody and I'm in leading and I'm in charge this is the way it's  going to be actually it's kind of quite not that you've got to that leadership position because  you've already you should have already earned that trust and respect and Authority that you  can now disseminate that to the rest of the team and they feel oh he's leading me now so actually  getting those supervisors and PR coming leaders to learn to be confident to set someone else to do  that job for them shows that they're leading shows they're in control they're not just doing it all  themselves from serving the table taking the order taking the wine list suggesting the wines asking  about desserts doing the chitchat get somebody else to do that spread that through them so it's  trying to get them to be confident to not feel that that's okay to ask other people to do their  duties for them so that's kind of how I would want to say is a key element for me to not not  be too self-centric about it and get other people to to give it a go go go and see if you can be a  leader empowering empowering your team basically empowering your team to do is one of the best ways  to lead and it's probably one of the best ways to achieve the work life balance because if you  about like you say focusing on yourself and what you can do and depending only on yourself and your  abilities then you feel the need to always be on the ground doing it yeah because there's no  there's no point trying to run a business and be the only leader you need more people to lead the  business for you so it's we got to grow them up so they need to they need to give that back to us and  and it balance everybody can take that pressure maybe it's their day today they're in charge a bit  more pressure today but the next two days they're off but and it's somebody else's pressure to do  but if more people can do that it spreads for everybody's they can all go okay they're they're  confident today my section my Department's okay I'm not going to come back into into a problem  so empowering them to be able to give that back to the other senior leaders I think I think is a  huge development absolutely now if you were to um look back on your life um who and you know sort  of one person to thank for where you are today who would that person who would that person be and why  yeah this this is where I suppose some of these podcasts get a bit it's not emotional is it but  it suppose it's powerful because I got a personal and a professional one um and and I think back I  look at I mentioned about growing up in a pub um and the character I've become is in I try to be  very structured I want things in my control I like to be very disciplined and organized but equally  I like to be quite wing it let's let's work with this let's let's let's deal with this face to face  and if I can sort it out on on the Hop I can and that's from my mom and dad so dad was the  business leader dad was the business organizer mom was on the floor she was there with the customers  she would sort the problems out if there's a water Le you'll sort it out you know and it's  all that sort of hybrid I suppose of both that I've watched inherited and and develop through me  I've gone that that's I don't know subconsciously maybe that's that's a lot of them to to give a  bit of thanks for that why I felt I wanted to be this vibrant and this involved on the job  that was stimulating stimulating um to all areas that give me best of my credentials that I can be  organized and I like to be in control but equally I like to work things out and I like to learn from  that courageousness where perhaps it could be a bit of a failure and a bit of a crisis but I'm I'm  going to get through that and strengthen myself so that was that's the suppose the depth of depth of  thanks but then professionally it was an old it was an old general manager um and sadly he he he  passed away he's not here anymore and I took the role he General managed me at my previous hotel  and in that day I went through four or five general managers and it seemed to be like a  2-year cycle that if you didn't perform and didn't deliver you were you were sort of maned out of the  business and somebody else would come and have it have a go and I felt always under sort of scrutiny  from that and had to follow their Direction at the time and there was a general manager uh came in  and he we sort of through Sport and sort of group um understanding of of teamwork and something that  we just seem to just seem to work and just seem to understand each other that I had never been  approached before by a manager or senior leader in a in in a privileged business or hotel sector  that sort of connected with me and helped me and talked talked me through but would equally put  me in a position of authority out of my comfort zone that I had to be a duty manager for a shift  he was he was going home um and it almost pushed the boundaries of him going like I've said earlier  he's getting me to do his job for him getting me to do stuff uh but I felt really empowered by it  although I was uncomfortable he put me through a process and the next day he would he would  come and find me personally come and talk to me invite me to the office talk me through it how  how do you think it went um this went B this was this was bad I've heard this I've heard that and  it always felt like I was under a bit of under a bit of an assessment solid assessment of some  sort or or what is this I'm I'm I'm being pushed here I'm being a bit I'm been a bit managed here  and I it took me a while to work it out and um he we it was great he he moved on location  wise to to a different business and I really missed that guy um for probably two years of  my career coming into Senior Management at Duty management level food and beverage level and  and um that's just before I moved over to here to come and work here and I was learning my ropes  here restructure a new business new team new staff 70 people 35 bedrooms you know sort of bit bit of  a Punchy turnover of of business responsibility and I felt I need a bit of help I thought I'm got  to going to reach out and and this this manager he he knew where I was he we kept in contact um  and I used him as a bit of a consultant and he he gave me a few gave me a few sort of on liners  of of various things that you you have to do and he was quite brutal in in all of his ways but as  I technically wasn't his employee anymore or part of his team he just said I hope you learned from  me in everything I did for you for two years because I really saw something in you young  man and I really think you can take this further for the rest of your career and him saying that  impartially and almost as a friend just became I see I see what you're doing there now I now  see what you did for me I see what you did he wouldn't put his arm around me and tell me what  to do he wouldn't um help me he would almost push me into the position of authority of leadership  and I had to sink or swim and I had I had to make it work because I had to prove to him I had he was  my general manager I felt so connected but he was he would then take his shirt and tie off come on  we're going to we're going to have a chat let's go for walk around the ground and it' be just  different I was managed differently wow and yeah I just feel like I thank him a lot um and and it  was sad sad times to see see him depart yeah yeah and not with us anymore and and and that I suppose  makes it more powerful to come back and go thank you man out there I'm here where I am yeah um I  love to ask that question because I think people underestimate the influence that we carry over the  lives of other people or the influence we have in the lives of others you know those little things  seemingly little things inconsequential things you know that we do but impact the lives of people for  forever and every time I ask that question these are the sort of answers I get very often it's a  family member you know parent very interesting and I always say our parents never probably saw  themselves as Leaders as they were bringing us up or even they never probably even thought we  notice the things they did you know because they just got on and did what they did but  that impact is so powerful and it stays with us for the rest of our lives I'm just listening to  you share about this GM and and how he managed you by giving you opportunity I mean one of my  mentors John Maxwell says there are three things that every leader needs to focus on  doing for people one value people two love people unconditionally and three believe in people and  that's what this gentleman did he believed in you you know giving you opportunity to try to  fail yeah it really it really did Merit yeah and that's it I don't suppose we know the power what  we're doing now in our current role of position what a what do we know we're not we're not trying  to egotistically empower people we're trying to you can see if people are trying to do it  for self-gain or self-worth can't you and you you you you see that you see that too many times maybe  but um yeah I think it was a really great great opportunity if you ask that question to to make  me think about it so it's really clever. Wonderful!...The Life and Leadership podcast is brought to  you by Can Do Academy where we help organizations develop high performing teams and extraordinary  leaders. to find out more about our work visit www.candoacademy.net and do join us for part two of this episode. Thank you for listening to the life and Leadership podcast if  you enjoyed the conversation hit the Subscribe button that will help us  reach more people and Inspire more leaders see you on the next episode